The Neon Dragon ([info]neondragon) wrote,
@ 2008-06-20 09:19:00
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Opinions on what fantasy creatures make the cut
So I'm sitting here, revising my draft for my third how-to-draw book, trying to get a selection of fantasy monsters that are substantially different from the first book's, but are still cool***. I have hard decisions to make for the final cut of the book. I don't want to have units that are redundant, and want to pack even more step-by-step demonstrations as well as individual pieces of different creature anatomy then the previous two books.

I was originally going to have Roc in the book, until I ran across Thunderbird!

How awesome is this?: "Across many North America indigenous cultures, the Thunderbird carries many of the same characteristics. It is described as a large bird, capable of creating storms and thundering while it flies. Clouds are pulled together by its wingbeats, the sound of thunder made by its wings clapping, sheet lightning the light flashing from its eyes when it blinks, and individual lightning bolts made by the glowing snakes that it carries around with it."

I have heard the term "thunderbird" used before, but I never actually did any research into it, but the above description evokes such imagery in my head that I'm like "holy crap, plz to be drawing, k?" The problem I'm wrestling with is that I feel Roc is slightly more well known, and can actually be adapted to many scenes, whereas Thunderbird kinda has to be in a storm with lightning and stuff going off everywhere. Bargle.




Another creature that I wanted to include was Cerberus. Multi-headed guardians to the gates of hell = so much win. At the same time, a unit on "hellhounds" in general might be kinda fun, as the imagery of a pack of dark, firey hounds racing along on a fae hunt or through hell. I'm going to need to do some research, because wikipedia is not always accurate, but the hellhounds having ghostly and phantasmic characteristics is also quite appealing to my imagination. I don't know. Maybe Cerberus is the better choice. He *is* a hellhound, and what's more, the most well known hellhound in myth. At the same time, I really like the pack imagery, and I could see having a unit that focuses on canine anatomy without the need to tweak it to adapt to holding 3 heads at a single meeting point having more application towards a variety of drawings and creature designs. (for the person reading the book.) I don't know. Thoughts?




***Many fantasy monsters are described as hideous things to be feared. Now, while I think that horror-show monsters and fugly things are pretty darn cool and that I love seeing the different designs that can be pulled out, what I mean by "cool" above is something that's not only fantastic and powerful, but something that can be beautiful and charismatic as well. You know, something that a daydreamer would want to draw, or can picture their RP characters with and such.

Edit: I wanted to clarify that there are many more fantasy creatures that will be in the book, including a good selection of dragons. The two above are units I would like to include, but am having a hard time narrowing down what I want from very similar possibilities :-D

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[info]eknock
2008-06-20 01:57 pm UTC (link)
TBH, I know Thunderbird better than I know Roc.... but I dont' know much about Thunderbird. (I've heard of Garuda before but that's because of Final Fantasy... :O)

and with Cerberus/Hellhounds, why not do both in one picture? You said Cerberus IS a hellhound, he might stick around as the leader of a pack. It's at least an idea you can play with.

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[info]neondragon
2008-06-20 04:39 pm UTC (link)
That's an idea :-)

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[info]celarania
2008-06-20 02:26 pm UTC (link)
As far as the Roc/Thunderbird debate, they're pretty much just giant birds. You could start it out as describing how to draw a Roc, but just meantion that this is actually a Thunderbird. *shrugs* That's my take on it at least; the main difference you be the setting.

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[info]neondragon
2008-06-20 04:38 pm UTC (link)
I think if I do the unit right, I can get away with doing both.

With the unit, raptor anatomy as well as a sense of scale (important for something that is going to be 8x10 no matter if it's supposed to be 1 foot for 100 in real life) is going to be the emphasis.

So for the step by step on a full creature (not the mini units on parts) the initial sketchwork will just be a bird of prey that has some good perspective on it to make it appear large. But ah, halfway through it will have to deviate one way or the other. Just trying to wrap my head around what the final drawing should be.

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[info]prezaurian
2008-06-20 02:52 pm UTC (link)
Try looking into some of the Greek mythology for inspiration (and help with the decision making). According to some of it, many of the most well known monsters (such as the chimera, sphinx, cerberus, hydra) were actually all born from the same female monster. This is the mythology story as I remember it. Gaia (Mother Earth) was angry at Zeus (Jupiter for the Roman version) for imprisoning the Titans. So she birthed two monsters (Typhon and Echidna) to punish and overthrow him. Zeus pinned Typhon under a mountain (which became a volcano thanks to Typhon being pinned underneath it) and Echidna fled to birth their monstrous offspring in peace. Zeus let them live as a challenge to future heroes. Out of all of the offspring, the only one not killed off by a hero was Cerberus. He was taken in by Hades (Pluto for the Roman version) to be his guard dog at the gates of the Underworld. Cerberus lets in dead souls, but doesn't let any out (nor does he allow the living in)...unless he's distracted with music or fed drugged honeycakes.

Sorry for the overkill on information, you're probably familiar with this info already. I'm just overly fond of mythology. As for which is better, Roc or Thunderbird? Considering the Roc and Thunderbird are technically just very large birds (the Roc being more generic)...couldn't the Roc be adapted into a Thunderbird by an artist learning from your book?

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[info]ulariogryphon
2008-06-20 03:12 pm UTC (link)
Cerberus and Thunderbirds would both be cool.
Personally I'd like to see a foo beast in your style.

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[info]neondragon
2008-06-20 04:40 pm UTC (link)
A foo dog is planned for the book :-)

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[info]athelind
2008-06-20 03:14 pm UTC (link)
Maybe it comes from growing up in the Southwest, but I knew about the Thunderbird years before I knew about the Roc. Maybe just a section on Giant Birds, mentioning the Roc and Garuda as alternatives while illustrating a booming, crackling, stormriding Thunderbird.

As for the hounds... I vote The Wild Hunt.

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[info]keeperofdreams
2008-06-20 03:20 pm UTC (link)
Oh PLEASE put Cerberus in your next book! It's so hard to find good pictures of the critter. Maybe do hellhounds and Cerberus (as a spinoff of the pack beasts)?

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[info]dozaloz
2008-06-20 03:24 pm UTC (link)
Cerebus is made of win and win. plz 2b having cerebus.

I could see having a unit that focuses on canine anatomy without the need to tweak it to adapt to holding 3 heads at a single meeting point having more application towards a variety of drawings and creature designs. (for the person reading the book.)

About the anatomy, the thing with mythological creatures is that although it's great to make them as believable as possible so we can relate to them, you can't forget that they are an escape from reality. When someone picks up a pen and doodles something off the top of their head for the pure love of escapism, they're not going to go into all the details of plausibility and skeletal structure and that kinda thing. Sure people need a basic knowledge of anatomy and skeletal structure, but I think a specific anatomy for fantasy creatures ruins the creativity a bit. So I think a section on canine anatomy would be a good idea, 'cause people can adapt from there.

Also, Scylla is fairly awesome, as are sirens, harpies, the Sphinx, and all kinds things from classical Greek mythology. It's worth picking up a copy of Homer's Odyssey for inspiration if you haven't read it already.

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[info]ryodark
2008-06-20 03:27 pm UTC (link)
I *love* the idea of the thunderbird, I think it would be such a great piece of artwork, just from that description alone.
I would definitely go with the cereberus as opposed to generic hellhounds.
What about other creatures like salamanders, the cockatrice, chimaera, or a manticore?

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[info]bakadragon
2008-06-20 03:42 pm UTC (link)
I'm actually digging the idea of a bird and canine section. Like you could do the basic anatomy for both, then show the examples or roc/thunderbird and hellhound/cerebus. Perhaps there could be other animals to do that with as well, like horse anatomy with centaur/hippogriff/etc.?

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[info]hellmutt
2008-06-20 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Hello! I heard the word "hellhound" from across the ether. Ghostly packs as in a Wild Hunt are one famous dog apparition. Their baying strikes terror into victims, and sometimes mortals get trampled or swept up in the chase. Welsh/Scottish fairy dogs are often white with red ears. Other spectral dogs can be black or grey.

In England (where I live) and some places across Europe, people have reported seeing single black dog apparitions, with variously strange appearances: fiery glowing eyes, no head, sometimes glowing eyes AND no head, dragging chains and such. They are often huge ("the size of a calf" is a phrase that turns up often) and shaggy. Their purposes range from scaring people for no reason to guarding travellers on lonely roads.

Dogs as guardians of the underworld or grave sites are also quite frequent. Cerberus everyone knows, and off the top of my head, Finnish folklore also has a dog who guards the house of the goddess of death. Norse folklore has a few mentions of Garmr, supposedly the "best of hounds", who seems to get a bit confused with Fenris the monstrous wolf in the sources. (It's worth tangentially mentioning Anubis here too, being a jackal-headed death god.)

Some articles I always recommend for people to start with are Guardians of the corpse ways, Black dogs in folklore and Hellhounds, werewolves and the Germanic underworld.

Modern twists on the hellhound include the 'Cerberus' monsters in Resident Evil games, who are more or less skinless zombie hounds, and robo-dogs as in the horror film Rottweiler. I also read a book called Zoltan, Hound of Dracula, which was epically awful.

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[info]catterfly
2008-06-20 04:11 pm UTC (link)
seconding what's up above. A bird/canine section would be really shiny.

Also, I don't remember if you've done this one yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin
It's a Chinese fire-chimera type creature.

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Roc and Thunderird
[info]skipernicus
2008-06-20 04:27 pm UTC (link)
Two variations on the sasme thing - I think if you offered advice on drawing birds and then variations on the theme (Roc, Thunderbird, Phoenix, etc...) your audience would be well served.

And the same thing goes for dog monsters...

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[info]werewolfling
2008-06-20 04:45 pm UTC (link)
I like the idea of the Thunderbird more than the Roc. As long as you tell what it is, people who don't know of it already will understand. It seems like a more interesting creature too.

On the topic of hellhounds, you made me think of the wish hounds (or Wild Hunt) of Great Britian. White hounds with blood red ears who hunt down doomed souls. I may be mixing myth, I don't know, because it's coming from several books. Herne the Hunter is one who leads the hunt, though I've also read of Odin leading it, and the reaper or a devil as well. I think I would like the idea of hellhounds in general rather than focusing on Cerberus.

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[info]feanarth
2008-06-20 05:48 pm UTC (link)
Cerberus and Roc would both be very interesting

Actually i liked the dragons in your books so much that i wanted to suggest that you show more of tho....no wait you wanted something different, DARNIT! x.X

Hmm as for "more well known" creatures: You covered up a lot in your books already so i'm randomly throwing some suggestions being "not that similar to each other" at you. Sorry if you already did these but my memory isn't that good lately x_~

Minotaur, Medusa, Satyr, Ogre (one and two-headed)

...and if it should be well-known mythology, i'd look for the World of Warcraft universe since it has become pretty fashionable as of late. I would think that a lot of people (including me) would like to see how to draw a Naga, Elemental or Demon like Magtheridon for example.

Oh, and just on a random note: Another interesting topic for fantasy creatures would be a focus on creating a scenery, dramatic and action poses. We've seen that a lot for humanoid characters but things like foreshortening and perspective are much harder to achieve (at least for noobs like me).

Hope that was of any help to you. :3

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[info]roadkillroy
2008-06-20 05:49 pm UTC (link)
Dunno if you have time to watch much TV ( I try not to, but then, I cohabitate, so it gets difficult) but there's a series on Discovery about Cryptids called Monsterquest. They did a show on Thunderbirds last season. Something to look into..

As for which is more well known, that boils down to what kind of fantasy you're reading. And why can't you do both.

Everything I've ever seen classically puts Cerberus as a single entity as opposed to a race. If you did a chapter on Hellhounds, you could include both Cerberus and Black Shuck as famous examples... Even though Black Shuck is actually a Black Dog...

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Insects, please?
(Anonymous)
2008-06-20 07:43 pm UTC (link)
I was always under the impression that the Roc was just a really, really, really huge eagle. As fun as it would be to draw one carrying off an elephant, the Thunderbird and it's nifty lighting snakes sounds like you can do more with it.

If you do the units by general animal anatomy, can you include one on insects? Crazy arthropod beasts from deep below the surface would be awesome.

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[info]stormy_neko
2008-06-20 09:05 pm UTC (link)
I like the idea of the guardian of the underworld. However have you ever thought of the rain serpent.(Snake with wings) or the Banshee. Just some ideas.

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Maybe a Kali drawing?
[info]untamed_sylph
2008-06-20 10:26 pm UTC (link)
One thing I would love to see you draw is a multi-limbed humanoid, like the Indian (Hindu?) goddess Kali. To me it's an interesting anatomy for art because you need to figure out where the extra limb attaches and functions. (Oh, Kali generally has 4 arms or 10 arms, is blue, sometimes naked or wearing the skulls of her victims).

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(Anonymous)
2008-06-21 12:34 am UTC (link)
I like the Thunderbird better than the Roc I think. It sounds much more awe-inspiring.
How about a chapter on more horse creatures? I loved the kirin and pegasus in your first book (I don't have the second book yet), and would like to see more. I know they were done in Harry Potter, but maybe some Thestrals? Or a kelpie, a mythological swamp-horse that would drown and devour people who tried to ride it.
A pack of baying hellhounds sounds like an impressive picture too. Please keep us update on the release date of the new book!

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[info]malytwotails
2008-06-21 12:48 am UTC (link)
Perhaps talk with [info]gishkishenh about Thunderbird. She's been a part of the Native community and would be able to give you more advice about what taboos there are to rights and privileges apply to which spirit creatures. I know Kolus (the Kawak'wk'wk'w Thunderbird) can only be used by certain families.

Dragon wise if you want a native creature, there's Sisutl, a two-headed seamonster who can turn people to stone.

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[info]malytwotails
2008-06-21 01:08 am UTC (link)
More on Sisutl/Sisiutl: http://www.pacifier.com/~nreynold/sisiutl.htm

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[info]kylesplawn
2008-06-21 02:51 am UTC (link)
I'm all for the Thunderbird. It'd be easier, I think, to do a main tutorial with the Thunderbird, and then have a smaller addendum at the end where you suggest a Roc variation by omitting things like the lightning, and suggesting any chances in scale.

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Thunderbird wins the match
(Anonymous)
2008-06-23 04:17 pm UTC (link)
I think I'd go for the Thunderbird; I like them quite well. Being from Norway, I would like to suggest Sleipnir, Odin's eight-legged horse. Also Nøkken (wonder if you've heard 'bout him; he's a kind of draugr/nix)(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draugr)- ashore, he resembled a white horse - his hoofprints were waterlilies. Under water, however, he was a slimy, scaly monster of some sort (http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilde:N%C3%B8kken_av_Theodor_Kittelsen.png).

Also, a kelpie would be cool, a hippogryph and maybe another gryphon.

How long is your new book going to be? 128 pages, or more? I'd love if you did more, if Impact haven't placed any restrictions on you.

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[info]mintos
2008-06-24 10:44 pm UTC (link)
ZAPDOS, I CHOOSE YOU!

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(Anonymous)
2008-06-26 12:05 am UTC (link)
I want to see the Aztec Serpent God if anything.. I would be thrilled.
If you decide to do Cerberus, and I read this in another Comment about Greek gods, why not split the book into different cultural creatures? Greek, Chinese/Asian, maybe put in Hindu Gods, American Culture (Native American, Aztec, etc), Norse, and such? That would be awesome. Covering varying cultural creatures.

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Thoughts...
(Anonymous)
2008-07-07 06:24 am UTC (link)
Dunno if these are all the suggestions you like but I thought I'd throw something out there. A section on Thunderbirds I think would be cool since Rocs aren't much more than huge eagles. As to the hellhound/Cerberus debate, both are similair in the sense they are both demon like hounds. I like both so can't help you there. :) Ever tried looking at D&D books for inspiration? There are some really interesting things in those.

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(Anonymous)
2008-07-10 03:39 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I think the Roc is better for that reason. Who said the Roc can't be pictured with thunder and lightning and whatnot?

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(Anonymous)
2008-07-10 03:42 pm UTC (link)
As for the hellhound vs Cerebus... I think that hellhounds have way more cool powers and would need more instruction to draw then adding a couple of heads. :P

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fearie dogs
(Anonymous)
2008-07-15 10:07 pm UTC (link)
Two fey dogs that i know of are the Gally Trot, and Cu Sith.

The Gally Trot is a huge ghost dog with out of proportion eyes. Its fur is tangled and white, it scares travelers on roads.

The Cu Sith is a protector of anyone in need of protection. Its equally huge with thick silky green fur.

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idk
(Anonymous)
2008-07-17 11:28 pm UTC (link)
why don't you just look through your other books and draw the images that you didn't make a tutorial on like that jester fairy on your second book. by the way that was an awesome drawing and you can always draw a harpie or a meduca from greek mythology. or type in mythology into google or wikipedia cuz there are a lot of legends out there. O and sorry bout the misspelling im only 12.

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(Anonymous)
2008-08-08 12:41 pm UTC (link)
gorgons (sorry for any mispelled words) try gorgons it would help on both human and snake atonamy, and more birds of terror would be cool. you know dragons vs birds

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Brandon Sheldrake
(Anonymous)
2008-08-08 12:57 pm UTC (link)
Shi Shi dogs, you can look up many ledgends about the battle between dragons and shi shi dogs. Kinda like Japan vs China. and tigers are in there too so idk but it was in the culture class i was in and would be really cool to see how u drew them

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